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318 Hydrostat jerk, AM116222 kit not ...

Weekend Freedom Machines » The WFM Archives » Restoration Forum - Hydrostatic Tractors Archive » 318 Hydrostat jerk, AM116222 kit not avail..How do I fix this problem?? « Previous Next »

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Darwin Galloway
Member
Username: Akidagin
IA
Registered: 4-2006
Post Number: 1
Posted on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 12:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I bought my 318 used last year and it has the notorious jerk when moving the hydrostat lever to the forward position. This happens as soon as the hydro starts to move the tractor forward. I know there was a kit part number AM116222 for this problem but it's no longer available from JD. Several dealers have checked for old inventory and come up with nothing. Does anyone have a how-to fix or another way to fix this problem? My 12 year old son is helping me mow and has a tough time with this. Any help would be apprciated...Thanks!
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James Briney
Member
Username: Lodogg2221
IN
Registered: 1-2006
Post Number: 121
Posted on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 3:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you go to JDparts, then the parts catalog, diagrams, do a where used search. I found it under the 318 (duh) anyway, it looks like the arts may still be available seperately, I checked a few, and none said NLA, or had no price....
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Alan Nadeau
Member
Username: Alan
VT
Registered: 1-2006
Post Number: 70
Posted on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 6:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We had that problem on a 318 and it turned out to be that the axle was loose where it bolted to the frame. In fact, it had broken out the bolt holes in the bottom frame flange. I ended up making new plates and welding them over the broken area. That took care of it and I assume the axle moving would cause the linkage to suddenly call for more travel speed when the axle shifted slightly forward when you went form reverse to forward.
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Mike Peery
Member
Username: Mower_shop
Mo
Registered: 9-2004
Post Number: 65
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 2:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Be sure and check the front trans crossmember. If it is loose or the bolt to the trans front is loose or gone like mine was, it will cause it to jerk and the damage that Alan had.
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rick nicholson "I need a 430 that whistles!"
Member
Username: Rfn
in
Registered: 1-2005
Post Number: 335
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 6:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Darwin:

I've got the same problem on my 332. Ask Kent how bad that little diesel will jerk you. That being said, I'm going to give a little history from memory. Kent did the original research.

There were four revisions of the hydrostatic linkage. Roughly as follows:

Rev 1: '83-'86
Rev 2: '87-'88
Rev 3: '89-'91
Rev 4: '92

Another bit of history: Deere changed the swash plate in the charge pump sometime in the '88 to '89 time frame. Basically upping the pressure and getting the resultant jerk.

So, the kit you mentioned: AM116222 is an update from rev 3 to rev 4. My 332 is a '90 so the kit would work for it. Since the kit is NLA, I tried parting it out like you said. What I got is:

M112845 BRACKET, ANCHOR
19M7866 CREW,HEX,FL,JDS123,M8X1.25X20-10.9
AM116187 LINK, WELDED HYD CONTROL
19M7785 SCREW, FLANGED, METRIC
M116234 FOAM, RH REAR
L1142C SPRING
AM121646 DAMPER
19M7298 SCREW,HEX,ISO4017,M8X1.25X35-8.8-ZN
M113243 SCREW, HEX HD M6
24M7298 WASHER, METALLIC, ROUND HOLE
19M8581 SCREW, HEX SOCKET HEAD, METRIC
14M7298 NUT, METRIC, HEX FLANGE
14M7296 NUT, METRIC, HEX FLANGE

Two pieces are missing:
M112830 NUT
M113092 PLATE
The nut is essentially a bushing on top of a nut. Kent manufactured one for his 318.

If you're 318 is older, look for loose transmission mountings like what Alan and Mike suggested. Also look for wear in the linkage bushings or maybe a worn out shock absorber.

Hope all this blathering helps.

rick n.
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rick nicholson "I need a 430 that whistles!"
Member
Username: Rfn
in
Registered: 1-2005
Post Number: 336
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 7:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Darrin:

Oh yeah, A belated Welcome to WFM. Lots of info here and a lot of experience. BTW, the Kent I was referring to was Kent Ortman, a wfm moderator.

rick n.
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Darwin Galloway
Member
Username: Akidagin
IA
Registered: 4-2006
Post Number: 2
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 9:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for all the suggestions so far. I need to check the serial number as I don't recall the year of the 318. Also checking for loose or warn parts will be a "need to do" regardless. I will post what I find for the year. If I need to install the AM116222 kit the parts breakdown will help.

Oh, my 318 has the inspection screen on the right side just above the brake peddels that mounts to the instrument pedistal with one bolt...I read somewhere that helps determine the year range.

So in regards to the 2 missing parts M112830 NUT and M113092 PLATE, is it difficult to make the nut and plate? Thanks!

(Message edited by akidagin on April 18, 2006)
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Jim Quarles
Member
Username: Jq730d
MO
Registered: 6-2005
Post Number: 236
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 11:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I made the nut from a large bolt that had the correct sized head - turned it down to size on a lath then tapped it. Works good.

You could get those nuts from the salvage guys too.

Don't know about that plate - my serial number NEEDS that stuff. I went through the conversion as far as I could without the plate and things work well.
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rick nicholson "I need a 430 that whistles!"
Member
Username: Rfn
in
Registered: 1-2005
Post Number: 337
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 11:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kent thought you could just put in a bushing and a standard nut in place of M112830. The plate is a little different. IIRC, it's part of either AM101457 (shift lever) or AM116995 (transition plate from shift lever to hydrostat linkage). So you might be able to substitute that way.

rick n.
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Jim Quarles
Member
Username: Jq730d
MO
Registered: 6-2005
Post Number: 239
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 8:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sure wish someone had taken some good pictures or traced off that plate !!!!
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rick nicholson "I need a 430 that whistles!"
Member
Username: Rfn
in
Registered: 1-2005
Post Number: 340
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 8:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jim,

I'll see what I can find in the spare parts bins out in the shop tomorrow.

rick n.
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Jim Quarles
Member
Username: Jq730d
MO
Registered: 6-2005
Post Number: 240
Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 6:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That would be really cool if you could come up with something Rick.

Keep on "Whistling"
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rick nicholson "I need a 430 that whistles!"
Member
Username: Rfn
in
Registered: 1-2005
Post Number: 342
Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 4:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Promised some pictures. Anyway the rest of the story is I've got a NOS am116222 kit. I got it off that auction site. Had to wait a year for it and took some prodding from Kent, but I got it . It will go on my 332 eventually. I can take pictures and make sketches and drawings as necessary until I installate it. Onto to the pictures

The description of M113092 from the destructions is "clamp plate."
Clamp plate

The shock absorber mount m112845 two views:
Shock mount 1
Shock mount 2

Special nut m112830:
Special nut

rick n.
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Jim Quarles
Member
Username: Jq730d
MO
Registered: 6-2005
Post Number: 243
Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 5:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rick - if you could do a dimensioned drawing of the plate I'd be in heaven.

Even just dimension on the picture would be fine.

Or maybe just trace the darned thing, scan it and sent it to me. Gotta have a PLATE! Truthfully - I think we ought to have a place for this kind of stuff to be stored on site or at least Kent should have a section in his archives for drawings and plans of obsolete NLA parts

JQ
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Harvey Eich
Member
Username: 88316jdharv
MI
Registered: 3-2005
Post Number: 15
Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 9:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I bought a 1990 318 in January with only 285 hours on it that is in very good condition. It too is very jerky when pushing the hydro lever forward. I don't see anything loose or broken around the axle or hydro mounts, so I am assuming that it is the same hydro problem you guys mentioned above and I would like to fix it. Neither my 1987 318 nor my 1988 316 have this problem and they have 818 and 719 hours respectively. Can anyone explain what the real problem is, other than loose/worn hardware or higher hydraulic pressure? What will this kit do in technical terms? Is there a way to turn the hydraulic pressure back down to eliminate the jerkiness?

Rick: Can you tell me what the parts list cost for the component parts and are all the parts still available except the plate, strap and special bolt head? Drawings of these parts would be immensely helpful in making them. Thanks.
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rick nicholson "I need a 430 that whistles!"
Member
Username: Rfn
in
Registered: 1-2005
Post Number: 345
Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 6:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is the parts and price breakdown I get from jdparts for the kit.

Your Cart contains 13 item(s):
Qty. Part No. Description Unit Price Total Price Remove
1 M112845 BRACKET, ANCHOR No Price Available No Price Available
3 19M7866 SCREW,HEX,FL,JDS123,M8X1.25X20-10.9 $0.43 $1.29
1 AM116187 LINK, WELDED HYD CONTROL $29.42 $29.42
1 19M7785 SCREW, FLANGED, METRIC $.72 $0.72
1 M116234 FOAM, RH REAR $3.57 $3.57
1 L1142C SPRING $2.34 $2.34
1 AM121646 DAMPER $59.40 $59.40
1 19M7298 SCREW,HEX,ISO4017,M8X1.25X35-8.8-ZN $0.48 $0.48
2 M113243 SCREW, HEX HD M6 $1.20 $2.40
2 24M7298 WASHER, METALLIC, ROUND HOLE $0.55 $1.10
1 19M8581 SCREW, HEX SOCKET HEAD, METRIC $0.75 $0.75
3 14M7298 NUT, METRIC, HEX FLANGE $0.54 $1.62
1 14M7296 NUT, METRIC, HEX FLANGE $0.83 $0.83
Total: $103.92

From Kent and Stan on the Yahoo site, what I gather happened is that Deere changed the swash plate between the pump and the hydraulic motor. They also changed the angle of the plate upping the pressure. This was done to cure the "can't steer and lift my implement at the same time" disease. And a side effect was a much livelier hydro. More like a 140. It will just throw you off the seat when you mow.

I'll see what I can do about mech. drawings. Hang on a little bit while I get my all my ducks in a row.

rick n.
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Darwin Galloway
Member
Username: Akidagin
IA
Registered: 4-2006
Post Number: 3
Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 9:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the parts list, pictures and info!

Well...it turns out that my 318 is in the 48,000 serial number range. According to the model info mine was built in 1988. So in regards to an above post my linkage should be Rev 2.

So it appears I have a unit with the higher pressure but does this mean I need the AM116222 kit??

Rick, you mentioned this kit is for changing from Rev 3 to Rev 4. So would these parts still be a good to correct my problem?

Thanks!
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Jim Quarles
Member
Username: Jq730d
MO
Registered: 6-2005
Post Number: 245
Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 10:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My 318 is in the serial number range to need the kit. When I changed to a livelier 24hp Honda I REALLY needed it.

The kit is no longer available. There are certain parts of it that are NLA through parts also. That plate Rick and I were discussing above is the culprit.

The discussion that went on when I was going through this change can be found at :
http://www.weekendfreedommachines.com/discus/messages/335/76345.html?1126808578

Essentially I added the new dampener to the old system - it helps a lot - but at times lacking the kit - my hydro linkage binds when going from forward to reverse and I can only get about 1/2 the movement of the linkage into reverse. When I go to neutral and back to reverse it's OK.

I THINK that block would prevent that from happening. It's not something I worry about if I can't get it fixed with a block - but I'm sure Deere did and I think that is probably why they included that block in the kit.

Besides - Rick and I like to piddle with things like this - right Rick? What's the status of the "Whistler" so far? Oh yeah I forgot - all those OTHER ducks in the way aren't they?
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rick nicholson "I need a 430 that whistles!"
Member
Username: Rfn
in
Registered: 1-2005
Post Number: 348
Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 11:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Jim, my '32 is as bad as your HonDeere. When I first got it, it had the standard seat suspension. And I'm "somewhat" gravitationally challenged, so the springs were compressed errr "more" than normal. Went from forward to reverse to mow around a small tree and the seat went "sproing" and Ricky went on the ground. .

And then there's one of the ducks: A high maintenance 322 with a radiator leak, weak brakes, yanmar electrical diseases AND a rear seal leaking. Didn't mention my septic system with all this rain either.

Mech drawings. I'm going to talk to a couple of designers at work and see if we can digitize the actual part. Like I said, hang on, the ducks are quacking.

rick n.
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rick nicholson "I need a 430 that whistles!"
Member
Username: Rfn
in
Registered: 1-2005
Post Number: 349
Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 11:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Darwin:

Took a look at jdparts real quick. Looks to me that Deere changed the swash plate around 475000. So there was a small window of the rev 2 linkage and new swash plate. You would probably need more pieces yet to use the kit. Check your bushings and maybe go with a new, bigger shock absorber first before converting a rev 2 to rev 3+update linkage.

rick n.
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Jim Quarles
Member
Username: Jq730d
MO
Registered: 6-2005
Post Number: 248
Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 5:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rick - we've got one of the driest spells on record going here - can you send some of that water.

Our Ducks have all left!

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